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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#1 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-15 13:08:35
but also, there is a reason why...
A) That shoes are more important than other articles of clothing: physiology. Think about it, you are wearing clothes, but your feet are bare and you are running around in the wet wilderness..... yes shoes have a bigger impact than most individual items of clothing.
If you look at the weights assigned to each body part (https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … cpp/#L7409) they are as follows:
Head: 0.25
Chest:0.35
Butt: 0.2
Shoes: 0.1 each
Back: 0.1
So it seems like shoes are actually the least/second least important article of clothing.
B) That wool is less insulating than animal hides: because it is. Animal hide (ie, Leather + Fur) is insanely insulating. Evolution knows best. But the main reason wool is "worse" than hide is that wool clothing is significantly easier to mass produce than wild animal hide. Thus, technically wool is "better", but not in raw insulation, its a combined value.
Hmm, that does make sense. Making wool clothes doesn't even require thread, though a bowl of carrot/berries per wool is not too cheap either (an epoch/berry bowl is comparable to an epoch/rabbit). Unless I've been overfeeding my sheep, does anyone know if you have to feed them each time you shear?
#2 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-15 04:40:01
Sorry if I sounded like a dick. It was like 3 AM and upon re-reading it seems overly harsh.
No worries 
, I appreciate the fact that getting the right information out to people is probably one of the most important parts of this game.
Imagine what would happen if someone started convincing new players that rabbits respawn faster if you kill them without a family, or that digging up gooseberry bushes allows you to replant them.
Chaos.
#3 Re: Main Forum » Request for list of content quick-fixes for tomorrow » 2018-03-15 04:15:09
The current berry bowl crafting recipe feels unnatural (why should harvesting 4 berries from a bush be different from placing 4 berries in a bowl individually?).
You could make berries stackable up to 4, and add an additional recipe of clay bowl + pile of berries = bowl of berries.
This seems in keeping with the game mechanics and would allow all berries to be used when making compost, rather than forcing farmers to eat a third of the crop.
Not sure if the scope of the change is larger than what you were looking for.
#4 Re: Main Forum » Tips and info (with images) » 2018-03-15 03:58:08
As you have all duly noted, it seems like I had my conclusions backwards. I thought rValue was the rate at which you lose heat, but as shown by the code Matok linked ( https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7509) the change in a player's heat is inversely proportional to the rValue of worn clothing. So the higher the rValue, the less a person's temperature changes, the warmer you stay (presumably).
The code pointed out by Matok also seems to indicate that player hunger rate is directly proportional to player heat (https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … r.cpp#L976). This allows us to tie clothing directly to hunger rate. So it seems like we can say that a person wearing all furs (clothing rValue of 0.85) gets hungry 1/(1-0.85) = 6.67 times slower than someone naked. However, there is a maximum and minimum food decrement cap (https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7509), and combined with https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7509 it would seem to suggest that the maximum hunger rate is 1 calorie/5 seconds (12 calories/min) and the minimum is 1 calorie/25 seconds (2.4 calories/min). This suggests that an rValue of >0.8 would be sufficient to reach this cap, however experiments (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … qoV40d.png) seem to suggest that full fur clothing (rValue 0.85) results in hunger rates of ~5 calories/minute, throwing all that math out the window. This is probably due to environmental heat sources playing a massive role in player temperature. I guess what would be interesting to determine would be what percentage of player temperature is accounted for by lost body heat?
TLDR; My mistake, bigger rValue is better, how exactly that translates to hunger is still a mystery
#5 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-15 00:28:27
>I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with here.
--> Higher r_value = higher player heat retention.
That's why things that have no insulating value... have a zero r_value.
>if( nextPlayer->clothing.hat != NULL )
> clothingR += headWeight * nextPlayer->clothing.hat->rValue;If wearing a hat, add to the current players "total heat/resistence" the head weighting factor * r_value.
Higher r_value means more is added to clothingR.
Ah you're totally right. Tried actually wearing wool in place of fur (guess I should have done that before posting lol), it is quite noticeably colder immediately.
Which I guess makes my previous point about building up heat over time wrong as well. Also we don't really see our temperature bars gradually shifting very much, so that should have been a giveaway from the start. So higher rValue does mean more insulation, which doesn't make it at all clearer why wool is so bad (I guess it's dyable which is a bonus?), but does make sense when you compare a reed skirt to a sealskin coat.
My apologies for spreading misinformation, I should have experimented before jumping to conclusions.
#6 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-14 21:25:01
Huh, let me go domesticate a mouflon and I'll get back to you on that
#7 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-14 21:04:32
This is clearly wrong and can be observed in-game by watching your temperature increase when you change items.
Even in your posted code:
> // clothing is additive to R value at center spot
and
> if( nextPlayer->clothing.hat != NULL ) {
> clothingR += headWeight * nextPlayer->clothing.hat->rValue;
> }Each item is adding its value times the body part weighting factor.
Next time be sure before authoritatively telling people how something works.
I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with here. I described above how your total rValue was calculated using different weights for different body parts, and gave several examples of this calculation. You seem to be agreeing this is indeed how it works?
I'm not claiming any authority in this matter, I'm just putting forth what little I've gleaned from looking over the source code.
#8 Re: Main Forum » Clothes vanish if someone dies on farmland » 2018-03-14 18:49:49
Afaik when you die on farmland your clothes are placed on the nearest empty tile. I don't know what the maximum range that they can be moved to is, but given that Jason has said before that pathfinding works beyond the range of a screen, I would guess that range would not be a problem. I have only tested this while wearing a fur shawl, but will test with more different clothes tonight (on a test server, can't go wasting clothes in game now)
#9 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-14 18:35:36
But why is the rabbit fur piece for three furs better than the one for four?? Doesn't the piece for four look warmer
I have no idea. The coat totally looks warmer than the shawl, and uses more resources too. It also doesn't make sense that a sealskin coat is the coldest piece of clothing in the game, while a reed skirt is the warmest. Idk if I'm missing something, but the code seems to check out.
#10 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-14 17:44:39
Think about it this way: your naked body loses 1 arbitrary unit of temperature per second (let's call that unit a joule). Of that 1 joule, your head is responsible for 0.25 joules, or 25% of the heat loss. A wolfpelt has an rValue(radiation value) of 0.9, which means that while wearing it your head will lose 90% of the heat it normally would (i.e it prevents 10% of the heat loss from your head).
Therefore, by putting on a wolfpelt you lower your heat loss from 1 joule/sec to 1-(0.1*0.25)=0.975 joule/sec.
For comparison, wearing a full set of wool clothes and a reed skirt would lower your heat loss to 0.68 joule/sec.
#11 Re: Main Forum » Clothing... is coat warmer than hat? » 2018-03-14 17:01:38
I posted this on the linked post, but I'll post this here too.
Your body radiates (loses) a certain amount of heat over time, with a default value of 1. The rValue is a coefficient applied to that radiation, thus with an rValue of 0.6 you are radiating 40% less heat.
The rValue of your clothing is calculated as follows: 0.25*rValueOfHat + 0.35*rValueOfChest + 0.2*rValueOfButt + 0.1*rValueOfFrontShoe + 0.1*rValueOfBackShoe. Code here: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7361
So as you can see, as smaller rValue is better, with different categories of clothing having different weights (from most to least important: Chest->Hat->Butt->Shoes). Currently the best set of clothing is Wool Hat + Wool Sweater + Reed Skirt + Wool Booties.
Keep in mind that your rValue is only how fast you lose heat, thus putting on clothes wont immediately raise/lower your temperature. Your temperature is also evidently affected by the various heat sources around you, and if I'm not mistaken when you stand still your body heat will warm up the area around you (another reason why babies shouldn't be running around).
The actual heat map mechanics are pretty involved so I haven't had time to look into them properly yet, but anyone interested can find the code here: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7246. It looks like heated clothing is supported (maybe we'll get heat packs to put in our shoes in the future), and what you hold can produce heat as well (though things in non-held containers will not due to performance reasons).
#12 Re: Main Forum » Tips and info (with images) » 2018-03-14 16:45:09
Another interesting tidbit: minimum hunger rate is 1 calorie/25 seconds, maximum hunger rate is 1 calorie/5 seconds
Code: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … r.cpp#L976
#13 Re: Main Forum » Tips and info (with images) » 2018-03-14 15:42:51
Your body radiates a certain amount of heat, with a default value of 1. The rValue is a coefficient applied to that radiation, thus with an rValue of 0.6 you are radiating 40% less heat.
The rValue of your clothing is calculated as follows: 0.25*rValueOfHat + 0.35*rValueOfChest + 0.2*rValueOfButt + 0.1*rValueOfFrontShoe + 0.1*rValueOfBackShoe. Code here: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … .cpp#L7361
So as you can see, as smaller rValue is better, with different categories of clothing having different impacts (chest being the most important). Currently the best set of clothing is Wool Hat + Wool Sweater + Reed Skirt + Wool Booties.
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